My response to a red-baiter

Scott Denver Scheid shared Oklahoma Communists's photo.

I guess Woody's response to McCarthy's goon-squad circus would have been something akin to this: "I am not now nor have I ever been ashamed that, back in 1936, I joined the Communist Party"... ;)

 · ·  · 23 hours ago ·

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    Mitch Cohen Around the world, the CP murdered 100 million people. But I guess that's nothing to be ashamed of. By 1936, the kangaroo trials, Gulags, Homodor (intentional starvation of 6-10 mio Ukrainian farmers), and mass shootings had gone on for years.
    

    21 hours ago · 
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    Laurie Porter O'Brien So that justified the witch hunt full of personal vendettas that McCarthy created? Not.
    

    16 hours ago · 
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    Scott Denver Scheid Mitch (haven't seen you in a while - which i hope is because you've been BUSY!!!)...
    
    the CP in the U.S. didn't murder much of anyone... assigning blame for the disaster that was the Soviet Union (which was not really even "real" Communism) just isn't fair or correlative - it's like saying that Charles Whitman's rather conservative upbringing (and involvement in  the Boy Scouts) - then led him to go crazy and kill a bunch of people; ergo. serial killers are Republicans... lol braoder example... the U.S. is a representative democracy / republic... we committed genocide against the Native population and maintained the institution of slavery; ergo Democratic Republics are big on genocide and slavery...
    
    Woody wrote and performed for the masses - i've never heard a Guthrie song that lauded gulags and murder... in this country, perhaps more than any other - the plight of the everyman improved only after unions and Socialistic groups came along... ;)
    

    16 hours ago ·  · 1
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    Mitch Cohen The CP in the US never had the power to engage in mass murder. But it was always absolutely a puppet of the CP of the USSR.
    They didn't have songs lauding gulags and murder in the USSR, either. They lauded "solidarity" and the "brilliant future of mankind under  socialism". The crimes weren't the songs. The crimes were the deeds, fed by the chutzpah to think a "vanguard" knows better for "the people" than the people themselves do and fed by the ego rush of viewing yourself as a world-historical hero while screening out reality.
    It wasn't just the USSR either. The experiment has been tried over at least a quarter of the population of the world -- the results are always, ALWAYS crimes, followed by apologists saying "it wasn't 'real' communism". Yes, and someday Lucy will let Charlie Brown kick the ball; he just has to trust her enough.
    

    15 hours ago · 
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    Mitch Cohen People can make mistakes. But at some point they ought to recognize their mistakes and take another path.
    

    15 hours ago ·  · 1
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    Mitch Cohen Laurie, and so McCarthy's scaring a few people, getting a handful of people fired from government jobs, inspiring a few blacklists in Hollywood and maybe inspiring the executions of two (2!) spies who the Russians meanwhile confirm gave the latter hydrogen bomb secrets -- McCarthy who lasted what, 3 years as a scaremonger -- this counterbalances 100 million murders (let's not even start counting the blighted lives) and dozens of ruined economies?
    I live in Berlin. East Berlin in its periods of greatest thaw was a nest of suspicion and accusations and lacked the rule of law with rights for defendants that makes the worst phase of McCarthyism look as dangerous as a gnat. The number of people I know personally who have been political prisoners in communist E.Germany -- having committed no actual crimes -- is probably greater than ALL the communists ever persecuted in the US put together.
    
    Scott, to flesh out "it wasn't just the USSR either" -- Mao murdered 70 million. The rest of the communist murders -- Stalin, Pol Pot, concentration camps in Yugoslavia, executions in Cuba, reeducation camps and boat people in Vietnam -- came to 30 million.
    Just as a benchmark: the Nazis, murdered about 12 million; to that you can add another 50 million war dead in WWII.
    

    15 hours ago · 
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    Scott Denver Scheid i hear you, Mitch... really, i do... but you have to recognize that power cuts both ways... if the CPA did come to power - sure, we might have turned out to be another Soviet Union... but they didn't. now, having said that, what did the CPA face in this country??? minus the absolute fire and brimstone of the Soviet Union - they faced many of the same things here in America - land of freedom and prosperity... blacklisting, witch-hunting, physical intimidation and yes, even murder... in a country with a Freedom of Speech Amendment at the head of its Constitution - throughout our history, to exercise that right and call for a union shop was and, in some instances, still is, taking your life into your own hands...
    
    i have friends in northern Minnesota who've had their homes and businesses wrecked by the FBI - their mail opened, their phones tapped, warrantless surveillance...
    
    as for admitting your mistakes - correct me if i'm wrong - but didn't the Cult of Stalin come to an end well before '89??? i seem to remember that the statues of him came down well before the wall... was it a true mea culpa?? well, to those who were victimized, probably not and who can fault them for that!?!? and, to be sure, i think the spectre of Communism has nearly completely vanished from the face of the earth - at least, as a movement en masse...
    
    i guess i recognize that Socialism has its uses and, like it or not, it's brought about a lot of good in the plight of ordinary workers. when you go full tilt in ANY direction - you're only asking for trouble IMO...
    

    15 hours ago · 
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    Mitch Cohen The Stalin cult came to an OFFICIAL end in the USSR, yes, because the heads of the Party were tired of purging each other.
    The cult was not over in China, nor entirely on the left in the US or Europe. And still isn't. I know people who proudly call themselves Stalinists, today.
    But the Stalin cult is not the core problem of communism. The Stalin cult is just one form of the unbridled power of a political group that thinks it is entitled to use any "means", as long as it has lofty sounding phrases about the "ends". THAT broader phenomenon, of which the Stalin cult is just one manifestation, is the core problem of communism.
    

    15 hours ago ·  · 1
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    Scott Denver Scheid sorry - yes, i do realize it wasn't just the Soviets... and there is no reason, no excuse, no logical explanation for it - it is merely just proof positive that the working poor can be just as murderous as the ruling elite... and no, it doesn't make it better to die of typhus or starvation as a "brother and Komrade" rather die of the same things as a serf...
    
    still though... in THIS country - freedom and democracy did not come at the hands of the free markets (though they helped) nor the landed gentry (though they helped) nor even the working classes - like any successful enterprise it is generally built from the ground up.
    
    just as there are probably still those in the Soviet Union and elsewhere who would LOVE to return to the "good ol' days" - so to are there just as many who would LOVE to take us back to the time of serfs and slaves and both of those parties are quite vigorous in their beliefs!!!
    
    ..."still proudly calling themselves 'Stalinists'"??? holy shit!!! now THAT is pretty sick!!!
    

    14 hours ago · 
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    Scott Denver Scheid i was going to ad... it is just as dangerous to minimize McCarthyism as it is to do the same to Stalinism or Maoism... when you sign up on the side of the thug - you live and die with the thug!!!
    
    you know - behind Lenin and Stalin and Mao... exist centuries of abuse via serfdom, slavery, no democracy, no unions... just god's personal representatives on earth and "everybody else"...
    

    14 hours ago · 
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    Alan L. Maki In fact, the Communist Party USA did come to power in alliance with its friends right here in Minnesota through the Minnesota Farmer-Labor Party and at no time did the Minnesota Farmer-Labor Party ever use its vast powers to so much as discourage or stifle dialog, discussion or debate let alone wield its power in any way which anyone could interpret as being an attack on democracy--- quite to the contrary; democracy was nurtured and expanded so everyone could participate in the decision-making process.
    
    Having been a member of the CPUSA for over 45 years and presently a co-chair of the Lake-of-the-Woods Communist Club which includes members from Minnesota, Manitoba and Ontario; let me tell you... I have yet to meet a "Stalinist."
    
    I have been active in Communist Party Clubs in Michigan, Manitoba, Virginia and Minnesota. During that time I have never met anyone who took orders from Moscow--- or any other cow. The people I have met--- for the most part--- have been hard working people who believe in peace, social and economic justice and who believe that socialism will help us bring an end to all the injustices created by capitalism.
    
    It is very unfortunate that today we are experiencing severe problems in the Communist Party USA as the organization has been hijacked by those who support Barack Obama but we are trying our utmost to correct this problem which I am confident we will do as we expand our network of Clubs grounded in scientific socialism.
    
    I have no idea where you are getting your figures from, Mitch; but the information you are spreading very liberally here like manure simply isn't true.
    
    Your information about the famine in the Ukraine is very lacking because the great capitalist "philanthropists" could have prevented the starvation simply by sending all the cows, pigs, chickens, apples, oranges and bread that was being buried here in this country because our own people going hungry could not afford to purchase it during the "Great Depression" was not shipped to the Ukraine.
    
    I would also point out that the Soviets were able to accomplish more than any other country in a shorter span of time even though most of the country had been destroyed in War. And, quite frankly; had it not been for the Red Army and the heroic sacrifices of the Soviet people we would probably be living under the iron fist of fascism today here in the USA.
    
    Mitch, you obviously know nothing about Marxism and even less about the Soviet Union and other socialist countries.
    
    Literally, trillions of dollars have been spent trying to eradicate Marxism through lies, repression and wars yet working people continue to  turn to Marxism as the main critique of capitalism and continue the struggle to replace capitalism with socialism.
    
    There is no doubt that mistakes have been made on the road to socialism but working people will learn from the past mistakes just like people usually learn from the mistakes they make throughout their lives. 
    
    I would encourage you and others to read "Working Class USA, the power and the movement" written by Minnesotan Gus Hall who led the work of the Communist Party USA for many years. In fact, you can sit in a chair in the Minneapolis Public Library bearing his name because he is recognized as one of the great thinkers, writers and activists of our times. And, today, real Communists continue on in his legacy the struggles against capitalism now in its most pernicious, murderous, barbaric and cannibalistic stage of imperialism as we contemplate the complex task of getting on the road to peace, social and economic justice as we lay the foundations for socialism.
    
    What do we Communists want? The exact same thing most people in this country want: An end to these dirty wars that are wasting the wealth of our nation when we need to be spending on creating jobs through solving the problems of the people. We want a National Public Health Care System. We want to see the creation of a National Public Child Care System. We want to see an end to racism and discrimination in all its malicious and dirty forms. We want to be free from Wall Street's dictatorial rule. We want to see our country flourish with the United States Constitution and Bill of Rights together with the United Nation's Universal Declaration of Human Rights as our guide to creating a socially and economically just society where we live in peace and cooperation with the rest of the world instead of a state of what has come to be never-ending imperialist wars from which I notice you have not tabulated the deaths nor the destruction. 
    
    We Communists are proud to have had among our ranks the great humanists who dared to struggle for peace, social and economic justice; those from Woody Guthrie to Paul Robeson and W.E.B. DuBois to William Z. Foster, Elizabeth Gurly Flynn, Phil Raymond, John Bernard and "fellow travelers" like former Minnesota Governor Elmer Benson and Red Lake Nation Chair Roger Jourdain and the tens of thousands of working people, farmers, small business people and professionals and on occasion more than a few far-sighted capitalists and industrialists wanting to create a better, more just world. 
    
    We can boast that our Party, although small, is truly a "party of the people" which inspires working people that in spite of all the problems  created for us by Wall Street there is hope as we move ahead, together--- in struggle.
    
    By the way, Mitch; would you mind telling us how many people have died in places like Indonesia, the Philippines, Korea, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Libya, Iraq and Afghanistan as a direct result of Wall Street's wars against the people? How many victims have there been as a direct result of U.S. imperialist "interventions" since the first imperialist war, the Spanish American War, up through the present wars? If numbers are so important to you let's have this total. Let's also have the total cost in dollars so we can compare what price we have paid for all these dirty imperialist wars in terms of what we could have had, instead.