Alan L. Maki This will be an election that everyone in North America will want to watch as the New Democratic Party in Manitoba, probably the best working class political party in North America, struggles against the huge corporations, big agri-business, the mining, forestry, banking and telecommunication industries to maintain pow...er:
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/manitoba/story/2010/09/21/mb-conservatives-ndp-poll-manitoba.html#socialcomments
There is just over a year to go. United States government agencies and U.S. big-businesses have been trying for years to defeat the NDP.
This will be a campaign of the working people of Manitoba vs domestic and foreign capital. A lot is at stake.
Here is the Manitoba New Democratic Party web site:
http://www.mb.ndp.ca/
CBC News - Manitoba - NDP loses popularity in Manitoba: poll
www.cbc.ca
Manitoba's governing NDP is in danger of losing its grip on power in the province.
Wednesday at 2:07am ·
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Harvey Smith and Susan Trevelyan-Syke like this.
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Rita Burns Unfortunately, Canada is entering a period of conservatism. Not good for any country. At least, when you get tired of them, you can throw them out. We're stuck with them until the end of term.
Wednesday at 2:10am ·
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Susan Trevelyan-Syke I understand the Conservatives are taking orders from Likud.
Wednesday at 2:39am ·
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Alan L. Maki
We shall see, Rita; I think you might be wrong. I tend to think we are witnessing in Canada the "quiet before the storm."
I think the push will be to tax the hell out of the rich and the corporations--- especially the U.S. and other foreign... corporations that have been robbing Canada blind.
I also think the Manitoba New Democratic Party is going to hold on to power and give the Conservatives the good whooping they so justly deserve--- again.
The Manitoba New Democratic Party has two very important things going for it that no other political party in North America can claim--- openness and honesty in government.
I have traveled very extensively in Canada and the one thing I noticed everyplace I went meeting with working people is that they are pretty fed up with capitalism and foreign corporations stealing the country's wealth.
Among working people, the dominant ideological trend is in opposition to capitalism and in support of socialism.
The Canadian Labour Congress is among the most forward thinking labour bodies in the world and the New Democratic Party is the party of organized labour.
Richard Trumka and the leaders of organized labor here would do well to study what is taking place in Canadian labour... forget about Obama and the Democrats and put their resources into starting a labor-based peoples' party like the New Democratic Party.
As the election draws near voters in Manitoba are going to start thinking about the corruption they got with the Conservative government of Gary Filmon and all the cuts made to social programs along with the privatization of the provincially owned and operated telephone company and the way the Conservatives ended the elementary school dental program that provided every school child with free dental care... courtesy of Howard Pawley's NDP government--- which by the way brought into existence the provincially owned and operated auto insurance company--- AutoPac which the Conservatives want to privative along with Manitoba Hydro.
Wednesday at 2:48am ·
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Judith Mongrain Manitoba needs to remember what they got with conservatives last time they were in power.
Wednesday at 5:57am ·
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John Hollingsworth oh my god, alan, i don't even know where to begin in responding to that...the NDP a "labour-based people's party", the CLC "among the most forward thinking labour bodies in the world"...wow...
Wednesday at 7:26am ·
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Judith Mongrain I guess it's all in where you come from John. In America they have so little in the way of socially progressive groups, workers' rights and no appreciable social safety net; so the NDP and CLC look like nirvana, even though in Canada, many of us feel we have a long way to go...it's not half the trip America has!
Wednesday at 7:33am ·
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John Hollingsworth
This are some pretty big myths about Canada than span much of the American left. Some differences with regards to health care aside, what we are is a region within the centre of Empire. You should know that the NDP and Canadian electoralists of the "left" love the Obama Administration. Obama's campaign director spoke at the federal NDP's past convention. And the record of the actually existing NDP governments (across B.C., Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Ontario and Nova Scotia at different points in time) was pretty mixed at best for working class people. (That really is giving too much credit.) No, these groups are pro-capitalist, tend to tow the state line on matters of "high politics", and are not even particularly "social democratic" (except occasionally in rhetoric). They are also profoundly hypocritical. Basically, the CLC and NDP have a relationship that matches that of the AFL-CIO and the Democratic Party.See More
Wednesday at 7:57am ·
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Max Monclair I agree with John. If we look at the NDP of the 60s as a model for a labor party in the US, we might have something. However, today's NDP looks more like Britain's "New Labor". In that case, you may as well be voting for the Liberal Party or the BQ.
Wednesday at 8:28am ·
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Rita Burns I hope you are right, Alan. I have always considered Canada left of the US. We wanted to move there in the 90's, went to Idaho instead. Wish we would have done Canada. At least we would have health care now.
Wednesday at 8:36am ·
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John Charles Wilson I've heard that Canada wasn't really left of the U.S. until U.S. draft dodgers moved there during Vietnam... of course I was told that by someone who thought it was a *bad* thing so he could've been biased.
Wednesday at 9:41am ·
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John Hollingsworth The right-wing in Canadian society and political culture is very similar ideologically and programatically to the right-wing in the U.S., including in relative size, weight and role. For example, we've long had our equivalent of tea-baggers up here. When down there they were called Free Republic, up here they were called Free Dominion.
Wednesday at 9:52am ·
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John Hollingsworth (I should add, many of these myths about Canada are shared by the (state-loving) Canadian "left".)
Wednesday at 9:53am ·
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Alan L. Maki
I stand by my comments about both the Manitoba NDP and the CLC. I think the most important thing to note about the Manitoba NDP and the CLC is that they are are very important in keeping Canada from moving further to the right as they push ...a pro-labour agenda forward.
Another important point is that everyone has a right to put forward their ideas within both the Manitoba NDP and the CLC.
Could, or should, either be pushed further left? That is up to the grassroots and the rank-and-file.
I would challenge anyone to to name any government in the world which is more honest, and more open to citizen participation than the Manitoba New Democratic Party led government--- bar none.
And, by the way... it is fairly easy and simple for any other party to attain ballot status in Manitoba.
Make no mistake, I don't hold the Manitoba NDP led government up as a "lesser evil." The NDP led government is simply a very good and decent government.
I sincerely doubt whether better public education or health care can be found anyplace in the world. With this said, yes, there are many problems... most of which are the result of foreign corporations stealing the province blind and the Progressive Conservative Party in Manitoba is the voice of foreign capital while most of the Liberals represent domestic capital and a number of foreign corporations--- however, even among the Liberal Party in Manitoba are to be found some very honest and competent politicians--- although these honest Liberals are few and far between.
Poverty and racism are two very big problems in Manitoba--- however, what I would note that is of utmost importance is that the New Democratic Party led Manitoba government is not an obstacle to solving either problem but a force for change for the better.
Has there been a socialist revolution in Manitoba? Of course not... anyone who thinks they have the answer to leading a socialist revolution, I would encourage them to have at it.
I would note this: Manitoba has had the longest serving Communist Party elected public officials of any other country from time-to-time... most notably Jacob Penner and Joe Zuken. I have found nothing but respect towards both men, now dead, from anyone in the NDP.
I am sure that as the Communist Party of Canada-Manitoba section gets more deeply involved in the political life of Manitoba we will see even greater things to come in this province.
Quite frankly, it is my opinion, that one of the reasons Manitoba politics is so much further advanced than in other parts of Canada or in most countries is because the working class left, in spite of many differences of opinion with in it, has found ways to work together on many issues and this is most likely the very best lesson we can all learn from Manitoba politics. This is why I have posted this particular article about this poll... to hopefully encourage everyone to watch and learn as the Manitoba NDP struggles to maintain its very important position of influence and power.
Yes, John; consider me a "state-loving member of the left." When you create a stateless society someplace in Ontario, let me know so I can avoid it when I cross the border from time-to-time. Perhaps you can explain how an "anti-statist" would approach the electoral arena :)
My assessment of both the Manitoba NDP and the CLC is based upon ten years living in Manitoba... just so everyone understands my biases, I should declare that a great deal of my negative assessment of both the Progressive Conservative Party and the Liberal Party has a great deal to do with their dirty deeds to deport me... but, in stating this, I found many, many decent people who consider themselves Progressive Conservatives and Liberals... but, here again, I attribute this to the way the NDP "rubs off on people."
Again, I would challenge anyone to come to my "Wall" here and voice any concerns or comments about what I have stated.
I would encourage everyone to explore the ideas of the three "giants" of the Canadian left whose thinking has contributed to the success of the left in Manitoba:
Tommy Douglas who led the NDP.
Tim Buck, who led the Communist Party of Canada.
Dr. Norman Bethune who was a true internationalist and humanitarian; a member of the Communist Party of Canada.
There is a great movie produced by the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation about the life and times of Tommy Douglas: Prairie Giant, The Tommy Douglas Story.
No matter what anyone's personal political beliefs, all three of these left-wing leaders remain beloved and respected by the Canadian people.
Manitoba is probably one of the left-wing's best kept secrets... shouldn't we be interested in discussing what is going on there? e might just all learn a little something... including an appreciation for how people on the left with some slightly different ideas can actually get along in a way where accomplishments of benefit to working people can be had.
I do have a question for the critics of the New Democratic Party and the Canadian Labour Congress: What should they be doing that they aren't doing? Consider this an open invitation to one and all.
Wednesday at 3:49pm ·
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John Hollingsworth
I think that we need to begin with an honest assessment, which I think is sorely lacking on your end, Alan. You can try and paint Gary Doer (former Manitoba NDP premier who is now Conservative PM Stephen Harper's Canadian ambassador to the ...USA) as Tommy Douglas all you want, or pretend that the relationship between the CLC and the NDP is somehow different than that between the AFL-CIO and the Democrats/Obama, but I'm calling you out as profoundly wrong and possibly a little deluded here.
I have a lot more to share about the Manitoba NDP and the Manitoba Federation of Labour (MFL - a provincial affiliate of the CLC), and how the MFL has preferred to keep cosy with the party elites in the NDP rather than to keep the faith with striking MTS workers, so rest assured there will be more to follow in refutation of the above.See More
Wednesday at 3:56pm ·
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John Hollingsworth 1. Safer Communities and Neighbourhoods (SCAN) legislation - the racist and police state legislation pioneered in Gary Doer's Manitoba in 2002 that flouts constitutionally-protected rights. A model for many provincial jurisdictions across Canada!
Wednesday at 4:01pm ·
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John Hollingsworth 2. Corporate tax cuts and tuition fee increases in the last several provincial budgets.
Wednesday at 4:02pm ·
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John Hollingsworth 3. Federal NDP condemning the 2007 Security and Prosperity Partnership in the federal House of Commons while the Manitoba NDP was championing it and the trade corridor extending to Churchill in the far north of the province/ (Churchill is becoming quite strategically significant as a port as global warming increases and polar ice recedes. It was also sold for $1 to a developer.)
Wednesday at 4:03pm ·
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John Hollingsworth 4. Federal NDP members from Winnipeg - Judy Wasylycia-Leis and the inimitable Pat Martin - are/were members of the neo-McCarthyite Canadian Parliamentary Committee on Combating "Antisemitism" (aka campus-based events like Israeli Apartheid Week). (Judy was, but now she's running for mayor of Winnipeg.) Support for these kinds of positions have also come from the Winnipeg DLC and MFL at various conjunctures.
Wednesday at 4:06pm ·
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John Hollingsworth (I'll leave it at that for now. I've invited my lefty friends from Manitoba to comment further.)
Wednesday at 4:07pm ·
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John Hollingsworth As for how the anti-statist left approaches the electoral arena, I guess that there are a variety of answers to that but I can assure you that it doesn't involve making excuses and running interference for corrupt pols.
Wednesday at 4:09pm ·
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Jay Gannon
Myself, I argue for voting for the NDP come election time, but with a level of critical distance - I don't see any reason to spread the idea that it's somehow this great, entirely forward thinking, entirely working class party. It isn't - it's a party of the trade union bureaucrats who often happen to be in bed with management. That being said it does have at least some connection to organized labour as opposed to none whatsoever, and it does often take relatively progressive stances on various issues, at least as compared to the entirely-corporate alternatives of the Liberals and Tories...
I guess I find myself somewhere in between what you're saying, John - your criticisms of the NDP are pretty valid - and what you're saying, Alan - I think they should be supported to some degree - but the difference we have is that said support should never come without illusions, and it should not come without conditions...
Oh, and btw Alan, the "Progressive Conservative" party is long dead. It's now just the "Conservative Party" as it's taken up a whole host of social-reactionary issues that the old Tories had moved away from to some degree over the years (while never leaving them entirely behind, at least at election time)
I prefer to call them the Republican Party of Canada.
Wednesday at 4:22pm ·
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John Hollingsworth What conditions are you proposing, Jay?
Wednesday at 4:24pm ·
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Jay Gannon
there are plenty of more formal demands that we might bring up collectively.
As for what I'd like to personally see? I can think of plenty, but just to stick to some that have actually been part of NDP policy at one time or another, seems l...ike a good starting point to me at least - abrogation of so called 'free trade' agreements, withdrawal from NATO, nationalization of the banking industry...just a few demands that the left should be making of the NDP in exchange for a vote, none of which is even outside the sphere of where the party has gone over the years in terms of official policy - but all of which have been underemphasized due to various factors that we likely don't need to go into at length here, they're pretty obvious.
Wednesday at 4:32pm ·
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John Hollingsworth
OK, and what do you propose when they don't meet those conditions? Because from what I can see, the sad, pathetic reality of left electoralism is "do it all over again".
Here's a comment from somebody who couldn't comment on Alan's FB: "all ...that stuff about control by foreign multi-nationals can be pretty problematic - it usually frames local and national corporations as somehow "the good guys" and the whole "anti-foreigner" line can also pretty quickly become anti-immigrant... and/or anti-anyone who is perceived as an outsider. also, where is the manitoba NDP on native issues? are they talking about returning stolen land and respecting aboriginal and treaty rights...beyond talking are they doing it? no manitoba on stolen native land. also, winnipeg has the largest population of urban indigenous people, many of whom experience extreme forms of racism as well as poverty, police brutality, etc."See More
Wednesday at 4:35pm ·
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Alan L. Maki
First about Gary Doer; Harper apparently had some difficulty finding anyone intelligent enough in his own party to do the job... so he picked an intelligent person who respects all people and is able to get along with people. Gary Doer has not switched his political alliances as far as I know... do you have information to the contrary?
I prefer to see free public education through university; with this said, how many places in North America can a less expensive university education be had than in Manitoba? I don't know; do you? I doubt many.
As for the sale of the port in Churchill; I can't really remember much about this... but I am pretty sure the port was owned by the government of Canada and it was the federal government that must have sold it... how is the NDP responsible for this sale... obviously with Soviet grain trade no longer the main staple because the capitalist government in Russia no longer subsidizes cheap food gains and breads for the people... who was going to take care of this massive port; certainly you aren't implying that the provincial government of Manitoba should have undertaken this costly venture? No doubt, though, the Port of Churchill should have remained in Canadian government ownership.
I know nothing about the other issues you are raising and from your lack of knowledge about the cost of university education and the Port of Churchill I would guess you know even less than me about these things.
I think it would help if you explained what Federal NDP members from Winnipeg - Judy Wasylycia-Leis and Pat Martin did that you find so bad... I'm not familiar with this.
The NDP for sure has been very weak on tax policy... they should take the suggestion from the Communist Party of Canada and just tax the hell out of the rich and their corporations. If I were you I would get involved in the NDP and push for this.
Like I said, I think education at public universities should be free so you will get no argument from me that any tuition increases the NDP imposed on students was bad and wrong.
The relationship between the CLC and NDP is most definitely a completely different kind of relationship than exists between the AFL-CIO and the Democratic Party--- this is very obvious to almost anyone. The former is a healthy relationship; the latter unhealthy.
The Manitoba Telephone System (MTS) was a public provincial enterprise for years until Conservative Premier Gary Filmon, over the objections of the NDP, privatized it and MTS workers had problems ever since. Maybe you could organize some kind of movement in Manitoba to bring MTS back under provincial government ownership?
There is no question the right-wing in Canada is every bit as dangerous as south of the border... but, certainly, you don't place responsibility for this hate at the doorstep of the NDP? Or do you?
Wednesday at 4:45pm ·
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John Hollingsworth
No, but I will say that the given the choice between a government that fakes left and runs right (the NDP, the Obama administration, etc.) and the one that's the real deal, people generally go for the latter.
Alan, here's what the latest Statscan data on average tuition by province tells us. While the Manitoba NDP does indeed have lower-than-average university tuition for Canada (increasing by 5.3% last year to $3,588 in 2010/11, a higher-than-average increase BTW), both Quebec ($2,415) and Newfoundland/Labrador ($2,624) have significantly lower fees. Again, nothing new here.
As for the port of Churchill, my point wasn't about the NDP transferring sale/ownership - it was about the complete disconnect between the federal and provincial NDPs on the SPP and related continental strategy, and the ignorance/head-in-the-sand approach of party stalwarts to this kind of thing. A similar thing could be said for the NDP/state-loving left's pathetic bleats about proportional representation - which they call for in every jurisdiction EXCEPT where they would have the power to actually implement it (i.e. places like Manitoba).
In light of this, perhaps you should look into my other claims.
(BTW you sound like an Obamabot, except that you're running interference for the pseudo-left NDP. Scratch a Communist Party adherent these days, find a liberal state-lover.)
Wednesday at 4:59pm ·
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John Hollingsworth
Sorry, Alan, I'll check my tone, and I appreciate you keeping things open for debate. I certainly didn't mean to suggest that you prevented somebody from posting to your wall - I forwarded a comment someone left on my wall for you because t...hey were unable to do so on yours.
That said, I think that I've been pretty clear in answering your question about where lower university tuition can be found in North America. If anyone's being dishonest here, it ain't me! Notably, there has never been an NDP government in either Quebec or Newfoundland and Labrador, I would add.
You are right though, my gripe is against the established wisdom that banging our head against the wall in the hopes that we break on through, aka electoralism, is a thoughtful and respectable "strategy". That said, people are free to do what moves them - I just want to point out when and where it goes wrong. On that note, I'm still hoping to hear from Jay what his response is to my question.
p.s. Gary Doer was an NDP premier, not a "Progressive" Conservative. That said, you're right and I don't think that he changed his political affiliations even slightly - that's obviously unnecessary when liberal "democracy" comes in only so many shades of vanilla.
Wednesday at 6:51pm ·
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Alan L. Maki
Sorry, I had to delete the original post before John's comment because John pointed out I made a terrible mistake in naming Gary Doer as a Progressive Conservative when it should have been Gary Filmon... sorry for this mistake. Thanks for pointing it out John.
This is the sentence here:
"...the NDP government of Howard Pawley had all kinds of programs in place designed to help end racism and the Progressive Conservative government of Gary Filmon abolished most of them."
Gary Filmon was the culprit; not Gary Doer.
John, first of all your name calling is unfair. You suggest that I prevented someone from posting on my "Wall;" this is a blatant lie. I have never restricted nor deleted posts from anyone.
As to the most foolish statements from this anonymous poster claiming they couldn't post to my "Wall;" again, more groundless insinuation... the NDP government of Howard Pawley had all kinds of programs in place designed to help end racism and the Progressive Conservative government of Gary Filmon abolished most of them. Most of the problems in Manitoba stem directly from the federal government regarding the problems Aboriginal people are experiencing beginning with all the promises the federal government made regarding hydro-electric development and then reneged on.
John, I'm not "running interference for anyone;" I posted an article about a poll trying to create some interest in people for what is going on north of the border.
If I operated like the "Obamabots" and Democratic Party hacks I simply would have deleted your comments, but I didn't.
That you didn't honestly state your claims about the NDP and tuition costs at universities initially, I see no reason to explore your other claims--- post the facts and then we can discuss these claims.
Obviously your gripe isn't with only the NDP; it is with anyone on the left who engages in political/electoral work.
Wednesday at 7:18pm ·
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Jay Gannon
I certainly don't propose the 'bang the head against the wall' strategy. It has been tried, and it has failed, time and time again, because it obviously doesn't work.
If anything, that's absence of a coherent strategy...the obvious, rational..., sane strategy, to me at least, seems to be in building a widespread left alternative to the NDP, capable of moving beyond electoralism, but one that's at least willing to call upon the NDP when it's needed in the meantime, with certain demands like I've mentioned above and others - but what's utterly vital is that this force be sufficiently organized, large, and powerful enough to act in such a way so that when things do go wrong, it's capable of exposing the limitations of electoral politics to widespread layers of people, and it's also capable of winning more immediate reforms - both through continuous pressure on parties like the NDP as well as victories won through other means, including direct action, workplace organization, etc etc. I hate when people say 'things have to get worse before they get better' - the reality is, things have to get better in order to get better. You win small victories by exercising working class muscle, and it creates a level of self-confidence that wasn't there previously, to take bigger, more daring actions. I think calling for a critical vote for the NDP can be a part of that strategy especially where the worker's movement is powerful enough to exercise influence but not yet powerful enough to seize power on its own - but I don't think any special emphasis should be placed upon it...it's only one tactic among many that can be used.
It's important to remember that electoral politics doesn't exist in a vacuum - it's a product of wider social forces - class forces - seeking to implement policies according to class interests. It's doubtful that the NDP, or any supposedly 'progressive' political party will maintain any sort of consistent, positive class orientation towards the working class as long as the working class, compared to the bosses, is relatively disorganized and scattered. That being said, I think at the very least, structurally, due to its composition and organizational structure - specifically the connection to the labour movement (which is different from the Democrats in the US - there, the unions just foolishly throw money at the party and promise a vote, usually in exchange for a few scraps - in the NDP, on the convention floor, labour is actually guaranteed a spot in the policy-building process. I think this gives a sort of breathing room to the left that the other parties completely lack - but what's important is what we do with it. Breathing room is no good whatsoever if we aren't sufficiently prepared to actually breathe as a coherent movement, and that's why organizing outside of the NDP, to the left of it, is the important thing...or at least that's how I see it.
Wednesday at 9:24pm ·
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Alan L. Maki This discussion is going on north of the border here:
http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#!/profile.php?id=528791540&ref=ts
Yesterday at 12:32am ·
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Sally Robbins Why don't people on both sides of the border have some kind of forum for the discussion on ideas like these? Maybe once a year. One time in Canada. One time in the United States. I am kind of ashamed that I know so little about what goes on in Canada. I visit on occasion as a tourist. People who are missing this exchange are missing out on a lot.
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The discussion then continued on John Hollingsworth’s facebook page:
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